Author Q&A: What chickens can teach us about creativity

Architects, surgeons, sculptors, poets, chefs, and knitters all practice creativity in their fields of interest and expertise. Historians, novelists, landscapers, and nurses find creative ways to put their skills into action. Creativity lives in all of us and reveals itself in uncountable variations and configurations.

For my friend Ann Byle, it was a flock of chickens that set her on a path of creative discovery. Her book Chicken Scratch: Lessons on Living Creatively from a Flock of Hens(Broadleaf) launches today! This little, accessible hardback book offers a link between backyard hens and the God-given creative impulses we all hold. My older sis raises chickens, and she tells me they have distinct personalities. Ann apparently sees the same phenomenon and connects the world of chickens with creativity—one of my favorite subjects. You don’t have to be “a creative” to qualify as creative. Here Ann answers questions about creativity, chickens, and living a creative life. 

Q: Chickens? Really? What about chickens sparked your creativity to write this book?

A: One day I was working on my laptop at a table on my deck. Up popped a chicken who stared at me over my laptop and seemed to ask, “What are you doing, Ann? Can I help? Got any snacks?” I started posting pictures of them on Instagram and people liked it. Pretty soon I was discovering how creative chickens really are, and how we would all do well to mirror that creativity in our lives. It was an odd and funny juxtaposition—chickens and creativity—but it worked. I had originally planned to do the book just for writers, but my publisher asked to expand its audience to all creatives. A creative and brilliant idea. 

Q: What are some of the characteristics of a creative person?

A: Creatives are curious about the world around them and, particularly, about the field they work or play in. Knitters are curious about new yarns and patterns. Bible scholars are interested in the newest research and archaeological discoveries that impact Scripture. Architects are curious about new design tools or materials. Gardeners are curious about new types of flowers or vegetables.

Creatives are also courageous explorers, willing to step outside boundaries to find new ways to work and live. With that comes the ability to say no to negative self-talk and to ignore what others say about their art, plans, dreams, and goals. Their ultimate authority is God, not others; they move forward with God’s pleasure in mind. Another thing creatives do is nurture their creativity through things like reading widely, exploring outdoor places, visiting museums, going on retreats, unplugging tech, tasting new foods or going new places. Creative people are always looking at new ways to do things, asking new questions, trying new things.

Q: In February I ate a grasshopper. For sure that was a new thing. What do you mean when you say that all people are creative in some way?

A: I’m convinced that God has gifted everyone to be creative in their own way. I have a friend who makes the most glorious purses, totes, and wallets with leftover fabric and a sewing machine. Another is an entrepreneur who can see the big picture and moves forward to change our community for the better. Whether we are bankers or elder care workers, therapists or builders, each of us has a level of creativity that we can nurture and explore in our jobs or our personal lives. Whether we choose to develop that creativity is another story. So many people think they aren’t creative, but we all are if we can find our creative niche and get over our fear. 

Q: What did you learn about yourself as you wrote this book? 

A: I learned that my inherent nosiness about life and people is about being curious, and that my role as a journalist and writer is part of that. It’s okay to be a little nosy—despite what my kids used to say about not talking to any of their friends. Also, creativity is fun. I loved learning how to play the ukulele, decorate a cake, knit, and draw chickens as part of writing this book. Being creative is about living life fully and using all of our gifts well.

Q: Random: Tell us some trivia about chickens that we can use at parties?

A: Chickens are smart animals! They can learn and remember things, communicate, and express their opinions. Also, who knew that the color of the egg is most often determined by the color of a chicken’s ear lobes? Our hens have red/brown ear lobes and lay brown eggs. White ear lobes? White eggs. 

Yup. Definitely did not know about chicken earlobes. 

Ann Byle is a freelance writer and book author who lives in West Michigan with her family and a variety of animals including three chickens. Find her at annbylewriter.com.

An Untidy Faith: New from Kate Boyd

Kate Boyd is one of my travel buddies. We've been to Kenya, the UK (photo of us at Dover Castle below), Italy, and Mexico together. And she's the author of An Untidy Faith (Herald Press, April 2023)—which launches today! The host of the Happy & Holy podcast and a seminary student, Kate helps weary and wounded Christians rebuild their relationship with Scripture and community and to love God and their neighbors with their whole selves.

In the wake of scandal, culture wars, and abuse, many Christians wonder whether the North American church is redeemable—and if not, whether they should even stay. While many are answering "no" to those questions, An Untidy Faith is for those who long to disentangle their faith from all the cultural baggage and recapture the joy of following Jesus.

Through personal anecdotes, encounters with the global church (some of which we experienced together), deep dives into Scripture, and helpful historical context about Christianity, An Untidy Faith takes readers on two journeys. The first journey lays out the grand vision of Christianity and the legacy passed on to us by the early believers in hopes of renewing readers' belief in the church writ large. The second journey helps believers understand why they feel distant from their church settings and provides a reorientation drawn from Scripture of God's vision for community.

A gentle companion, Kate Boyd walks alongside those who have questions but can't ask them for fear of being labeled by or cast out of their communities. An Untidy Faith is a guidebook for those who want to be equipped with practices to rebuild their faith and shape their communities to look more like Jesus. Here's Kate in her own words:

Q: What gave you the idea to write An Untidy Faith?

Over the last few years, I have noticed an uptick in the Christian community of conversations around “deconstruction.” In listening to those conversations, I realized that there was a segment of the population who are working through their beliefs that did not seem to be represented. Most were talking about their deconversions or how people shouldn’t be deconstructing at all, but there were people like me who had walked through a season of renovating belief and practice while still remaining committed to Jesus. As more and more people were beginning to ask questions because of the many scandals and idols within white American evangelicalism that have been revealed over the last few years, I realized that because I had walked through this journey before that I may be able to create a space to meet those like me there and provide guidance to the way of Jesus and a bigger faith full of joy.

Q: Who will benefit from reading An Untidy Faith?

My initial audience tends to be people like me—millennials raised as evangelicals. However, as I have been gathering a community and writing the book, I have found that as often as someone in their 30s or 40s resonate with these topics, I also find those from older generations who are walking through the same journey now or trying to understand their children’s current journeys. While I also am generally focused on lay people, I think it will also be a helpful tool for church leaders to understand the mind and desires of those who are deconstructing or disentangling their faith.

Q: Why do you think this book is important for right now?

An Untidy Faith is important for this moment because deconstruction is not going away, and we have reached a point where many who were tearing down parts of their faith are looking for a way to rebuild a faith that is holistic, authentic, and joyful. Many lack the vocabulary or resources to go about creating a new theology and practice that connects to global and historic Christianity while existing in their current context. An Untidy Faith connects the readers to stories from the global church and examines some of today’s most relevant topics to provide a way for rebuilding and reshaping ideas about them in order to live out a faith that looks more like Jesus and that works for every time, place, and people.

Q: What are some of the topics An Untidy Faith covers?

An Untidy Faith covers a wide range of topics with intention. I wanted to help people process by example and provide information related to the topics that are being widely discussed today. The book then covers how to adjust one’s relationship with the Bible, the relationship between righteousness and justice and what that means for how we love our neighbors, the ways we have misused and misunderstood the Kingdom of God, how the end of the world is discussed in the Bible and how it changes how we relate to all of creation, what to look for in leaders and discipleship that lead to healthy and whole disciples, and reframing the work of evangelism and missions in today’s world.

Q: Which chapter did you most enjoy writing and why? 

My favorite chapter in the book is chapter 11, “In Spirit and In Truth.” I think this may be my favorite because it draws on themes very close to my heart as to how we view the purpose of church and how we frame worship. In some ways, I think it is at the heart of all the other topics—how our entire lives fit together in worshipping God every moment of every day. Situating worship within the context of all we do rather than in a few hours we spend per week has changed how I approach all of my life as a follower of Jesus. I think it is one of the most impactful ideas to grasp for the church writ large today.

Q: What do you want readers to take away from An Untidy Faith? 

At the end of An Untidy Faith, I hope that readers find the permission they seek to ask questions, rework big ideas, and find joy again in their walk with Jesus. I also hope they find new processes and perspectives for engaging with those questions and finding their feet in their faith again. Most of all, I hope they walk away seeing that Jesus is better, and walking in his way is how we give hope to the world.

As Kate and I have traveled, we have often joked in litotes—or massive understatement. If we eat an awesome bowl of sticky toffee pudding or see a view of the English Channel on a gorgeous day, we'll say, "This does not suck." So here is an endorsement of her book: This does not suck! (Also, what Kaitlyn Schiess said in the banner ad above. It’s a much needed work.)

Want more from Kate? Find her here:

Website: kateboyd.co

Instagram: @kateboyd.co

Twitter: @thekateboyd

Untidy Faith Newsletter: kateboyd.co/newsletter

Podcast: kateboyd.co/podcast

We Still Need Sinai: An interview with Carmen Joy Imes

Carmen Joy Imes (PhD, Wheaton) is associate professor of Old Testament and program coordinator for Bible and Theology at Prairie College in Alberta, Canada. Today her book Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters releases from IVP. Here we talk about her work.

Welcome! So let's dive right in. Why did you write this book?

The church today desperately needs to understand what to do with the Old Testament (OT). We vacillate between two extremes—either neglecting the OT entirely or fixating on it in unhelpful ways. With my book I'm trying to address the need for Christians to recover the OT and read it well.

What's the big idea you want to get across?

We cannot fully understand our vocation as Christians without understanding what happened at Sinai. We tend to think of the OT law as a negative thing that didn't work, but if we read it in context, we discover what a gift it was for the Israelites. The law was not their means of salvation, but rather defined the parameters of a life of freedom meant to demonstrate God's character to a watching world. At Sinai, Israel learned what it looked like to bear God's name among the nations. By placing our faith in Jesus, we become part of the people who bear God's name. Sinai tutors us in what matters to God and prompts us to consider how we can bring him honor in our cultural context.

Who is this book for?

Bearing God's Name is for everyone. For individual readers as well as small church groups. It's also suitable as supplementary reading for undergraduates or seminary students. Each chapter includes discussion questions, suggested Bible passages to read, and QR codes that link to videos from The Bible Project. I've already heard from a wide range of readers—from teenagers to seminary professors—who say that they thoroughly enjoyed reading it and found it helpful.

Have you had any surprises in the process of producing this book?

Yes! So many. First, it was the easiest writing project I have ever attempted. I wrote it in one summer, and the words just flowed out of me. It was an absolute joy to write. Second, I expected that non-scholars would appreciate it, but I didn't anticipate the glowing reception from academics. Watching the sales stats on my Amazon author page is my new hobby. Third, so many doors are opening to talk about these concepts with audiences around North America. I'm thrilled to have a small part in reigniting people's passion for the Scriptures.

Where can people buy your book, and in what formats?

It's available directly from InterVarsity Press (ivpress.com) or on Amazon in Kindle and paperback. Christian Audio is also producing an audiobook.

How the Tamar Narrative Functions in the Judah and Joseph Narratives

I'm happy to have Carolyn Custis James as my guest today. In Vindicating the Vixens, she contributed the chapter on Tamar. In November she served on a panel of contributors who talked about narrative analysis at the national meeting of the Evangelical Theological Society in Providence, Rhode Island. Here are some quotes from her remarks: [In the Genesis narrative] just as the Joseph story reaches a fever pitch and readers are on the edge of their seats, instead of following Joseph into Egypt, the narrator follows Judah away from his family into Canaanite territory and into a salacious R-rated story involving prostitution with his daughter-in-law Tamar. From a literary perspective, the narrator’s choice seems counterproductive. From a pastoral perspective, this sordid story is problematic, unsuitable for a G audience, and devoid of any spiritual value. Pastors often skip it....Far from being a literary gaffe, the narrator’s decision to include this “enigmatic” episode is strategic;  Genesis 38 is actually the hinge that holds the Joseph story together. It bridges Jacob’s destructive favoritism and the searing father wound Judah suffers with the climactic meeting between Judah and Joseph in Egypt where warring brothers finally make peace.Here are a few suggestions for pastors to connect this ancient story with twenty-first century congregants:

• God’s love for the unloved and his power to rescue, redeem, and radically transform prodigals

  1. The power of wounds to destroy or make us.

  2. God calls his daughters to be bold agents for his purposes

  3. The self-sacrificing brand of masculinity the gospel produces and Judah ultimately embodies.

  4. In the current #MeToo epidemic, Tamar’s story gives pastors a call to courageously engage domestic abuse, human trafficking, sexual assault, and violence against women. This is a #MeToo chapter.

Listen to Carolyn talk about this story on KCBI radio.

Fathom Magazine interview w/ me about Vixens

This interview with me ran in the latest issue of Fathom Magazine.  Today we’re happy to have as our guest Dr. Sandra Glahn. Sandi earned her ThM at Dallas Theological Seminary (DTS) and her PhD at the University of Texas at Dallas (UTD) in Humanities–Aesthetic Studies. A professor in the Media Arts and Worship department at DTS, she teaches courses in writing, medieval art/spirituality, gender, and sexual ethics. She is the author of more than twenty books, including the Coffee Cup Bible Study series. But today we want to talk with her about her latest book Vindicating the Vixens: Revisiting the Sexualized, Vilified, Marginalized Women of the Bible (Kregel Academic), which just came out.

Tell us about Vindicating the Vixens.

Vindicating the Vixens has been on my heart and mind for more than a decade. As I studied history and cultural backgrounds at the doctoral level, I ended up revisiting some of our Western-influenced interpretations of the biblical text.For example, the woman Jesus met at the well in Samaria had five husbands, true enough (see John 4). But why do most people assume that means she was faithless and immoral? Women in her time and place did not divorce husbands five times. The man with the most recorded divorces had only three. If a woman did initiate legal proceedings, she had to do so through a male. Women could not simply walk into a court of law and speak on their own behalf. So, it’s unlikely that “the Samaritan woman” had divorced five husbands.Additionally, when we read that this woman’s current man was not her own, we assume she was living with some guy. Because that’s what it would mean in the West. But in her world, it is far more likely that she had to share a husband in a polygamous relationship in order to eat.Put these factors together, and you realize this person was probably not a beautiful young woman with loose morals. More likely, she was an older woman who had endured the death of a husband several times (war was the number one cause of death for men), been dumped a time or two, and consequently having to share a husband in order to survive. Additionally, the text says she was waiting for, looking with hope for, the Jewish Messiah (4:25).So we have, probably wrongly, assumed this woman was guilty of sexual promiscuity, and that Jesus was confronting her about her sin. More likely, Jesus was bringing up her greatest point of pain before revealing to her that he is the very Messiah for whom she has been waiting. For everyone else in Jesus’ world, the Lord seems to subtly veil who he is. But with this broken woman hanging on to hope, he comes right out with it.This woman is one of many whom the contributors to Vindicating the Vixens reconsider in light of what we know about cultural backgrounds, not only from new data but also from having more varied “eyes on the text.”

You’ve been known to talk about the importance of having varied eyes on the text. What do you mean by that?

Scholars from underrepresented groups looking at the Bible see what many of us in privileged positions have missed. They have brought to the text observations from a powerless perspective, which is the perspective of the typical person to whom Jesus ministers. (Like this great message from the perspective of those who are hearing impaired.) The body of Christ is made up of many parts that need each other to function as a healthy whole. But we’ve missed out on what some of those parts have to offer.In our book the contributors look afresh at Eve, Hagar, Sarah, Tamar, Rahab, Deborah, Ruth, Huldah, Bathsheba, Vashti, Mary Magdalene, The Samaritan Woman, Junia, and even the Virgin Mary—who gets marginalized by Protestants. And we look at them through the eyes of sixteen biblical scholars, each of whom hold a high view of scripture. And they all hold at least one advanced degree in Bible and theology. They are men and women; complementarian and egalitarian; American and Australian; black, white, Arab, and authors of books like Discipleship for Hispanic Introverts. Their varied backgrounds mean they bring insights in the text that the majority culture in North American has often missed—and exported. And as a result, the authors’ combined efforts provide a fresh look at the kindness of God and his heart for the vulnerable. (You can watch some of them talking about this book.)

What made you decide to do this project?

First, I believe men and women—not just husbands and wives—are supposed to partner in ministry. The church father Jerome had Paula partnering with him, though many think theologically trained women are a recent innovation. They are not. A greater emphasis on social history (as opposed to studying only troop movements, kings, and empires) has come from the academy due to women’s greater involvement in higher education in the past half-century. Trained social historians bring new ways of culling out data from the text—like what I just said about marriage practices in the Near East.But also, my deep friendship with some international students, especially those from Mexico, combined with travels to several continents told me we needed more than a Western perspective when doing observation, interpretation, and application.Additionally, part of my job used to involve serving as editor-in-chief of DTS Magazine for Dallas Theological Seminary, and I also teach theologically trained writers. So not only have I spotted some great writers, but I learned of projects people were doing that needed greater audiences. Sometimes the great writers were those doing this work.As a sampling, there was the student doing a thesis on Bathsheba (Sarah Bowler); a scholar who wrote a book on Arabs in the Bible that changed how I saw Hagar (Tony Maalouf); and a whole corpus of work on Bible stories that included women and men in need of vindication (Carolyn Custis James). For ten years or more I’ve been keeping a mental note of how these all fit together, and I could hardly wait to coordinate it.

What do you hope to accomplish?

Originally, I hoped only to help us read the Bible more accurately as we read about these women. But a happy result of the project was that the team of scholars went beyond simply exonerating those wrongly vilified or marginalized to explore what we have missed in the larger story by misunderstanding the smaller stories and how they fit into the whole. Now I see how the Tamar-posing-as-a-professional-sex-worker narrative fits into Joseph’s story in Genesis—which scholars have often assumed she merely interrupted. What emerged from all these micro-narratives was and is a clearer vision of God’s heart for the vulnerable in the meta-narrative.Before even writing, all of the authors agreed to donate profits to the International Justice Mission. So in a tangible way, we also hope our scholarship will lead to lives changed for the better for “the least of these.”

Read the chapter on Rahab by Eva Bleeker.

You can read an excerpt from Vindicating the Vixens about the context and cues from one of these heroines, Rahab.

In terms of ramifications for scholarship, I hope readers will see the absolute necessity of inviting to the table a more diverse group doing translation and interpretation than what we have typically had. I hope that we will never again see a translation of the Bible published that has only men or only women or only people from one “camp” looking at the text, but that we will instead celebrate our differences and seek diligently to include a variety of people due to our belief in God’s love for unity in difference.

Where can we find Vindicating the Vixens?

You can find the book at Amazon, Christianbook.com, and at the Dallas Seminary Book Center

My Thoughts on Gender

We Talk Different is a podcast on culture, race, ethnicity, gender, politics, and theology. Recently my friend Jurrita and I were featured on the podcast talking about gender and faith and race. You can get the scoop at iTunes.

The "Chrisitanity and Gender" Edition - 3.14.17 - Part II The WTD team wraps up their conversation with Jur… 3/13/2017 Free View in iTunes 7

The "Christianity and Gender" Edition - 3.7.16 - Part I This week the WTD Team brings in the real intelle… 3/6/2017 Free View in iTunes

Hear My Story on the ReStory Podcast Today

Thanks to my friend Mary DeMuth for hosting me on her ReStory podcast. Today I'm telling my story there. Check it out.

An interview with a birth-mom who made an adoption plan: Christine Lindsay

November is Adoption Awareness Month. So I'm featuring here an author who has a book that considers all sides of the adoption triad. 

SG:You are a reunited birth-mom—a woman who made an adoption plan for her baby who has met her biological child as an adult. Was the the day you met your birth-daughter a happy one?

Christine: Sadly, no. It was as painful as the day I said goodbye to Sarah as a three-day-old baby in 1979. In fact, more painful. At least on the former day, I was filled with faith that she and I would be reunited one day when she became an adult. For the next twenty years as she grew up as another couple’s child, I prayed for the time when I would see her again. But on that day, Sarah’s mom and dad were extremely upset by my desire to meet the now-adult Sarah. They couldn’t bear the thought of meeting me nor understand why I would want to meet them. In fact her dad was very much against the whole idea of our meeting.This put a lot of pressure on Sarah, and the day we met again, she came across as very distant to me. This broke my heart, taking away all the faith that I had that she and I could develop a close birth-mother/birth-daughter relationship—one different from what she had with her adoptive parents, but special none the less.

SG:So how did you feel about adoption after you met your birth-daughter?

Christine: For the first twenty years after I said goodbye to Sarah, I considered her and her adoptive parents a package deal—something God had put together. I loved them as much as I loved her, and I wanted a relationship with them as much as I wanted a relationship with Sarah. Discovering that they did not feel the same way about me brought back all the emotional pain of the initial decision.As a birth-mom, I was already struggling with the losses of that, and the delicate but subversive ways my psyche had been affected by making an adoption plan for my child—even though I’d made that sacrifice in her best interests. Seeing my grown birth-daughter and all that I had lost, I believe I realized for the first time the full extent of my choice.The emotional pain brought on a clinical depression that lasted two or three years. I began to look at Sarah’s adoption through fractured lenses. All the joy I’d felt about giving my child a better home life than I could have offered her back then dissolved into bitterness. I suddenly felt hood-winked by God, feeling that He had tricked me into giving Sarah up. I thought He obviously gave Sarah to her adoptive parents because He didn’t consider me good enough to raise Sarah. And if I wasn’t good enough to be Sarah’s mother, I must not be good enough for the children I had with my husband.Naturally this wasn’t the truth, but when we are depressed we don’t see things clearly. At that time, I wished I could turn back the clock and keep my baby.Jealousy grew inside me at a frightening rate. There always had been a tiny bit of jealousy that someone else was raising my child, but it grew into a monster. As a Christian I was turned inside out, hating myself for this jealousy, and yet unable to pull myself out of my emotional tailspin.

SG: Do you still feel that way?

Christine: No, thank God. Depression and emotional trauma do not heal overnight, and we often need professional help. I had a great counselor who helped me move on from those destructive emotions and began to search for the real me. So often traumatic experiences stop people from reaching emotional maturity. My husband was also an amazing help, and one day he brought me a new journal and pen, and said, “Here honey, write your story.”Also, through the verse in Isaiah 49:15, 16 I realized that my crazy love for my children (including Sarah) was nothing compared to the immense love God the Father had and has for me. That was the beginning of healing.It took time, but gradually I began to lighten up on Sarah’s adoptive parents and recognize their right to their private life with Sarah. As I filled up on God’s love for me, I was able to love them again the way I first had when Sarah was a baby.

SG:How do you feel about adoption today?

Christine: I beg pregnant women today to consider adoption as an alternative to abortion. It’s a wonderful choice. But if the pregnant woman is able to keep her baby, I wholeheartedly encourage her to do so. I’ll be honest, making an adoption plan for your baby is one of the hardest sacrifices a woman can make. But I have also found that we can turn to God in our greatest need, and He is there with leagues and leagues of comfort and love, and new joys to replace our sorrows. It wasn’t easy for me, but now I can say, that because I truly love Sarah, I cannot imagine her life without her adoptive parents and brothers.

SG:Will your memoir hurt my feelings as a woman who struggled with infertility?

Christine: Since my book braids the stories of not only birth-moms and birth-families, but also that of adoptive moms and dads, I do not believe anyone will be hurt by this book. All the authors in this memoir tell their own stories in their own words, holding nothing back. So, Sarah’s adoptive mom, Anne, tells it like it was as a woman who could not bear children. She also shares openly that having me in Sarah’s life as her birth-mom is still difficult for her. She adds that if she could, she’d rather that I wasn’t in Sarah’s life at all these day, even admitting that this is selfish.I too, share honestly that I was jealous, angry with her, and selfishly thinking only of my own emotions during the years just after I met Sarah as an adult.Sarah, too, shares her journey both as an adoptee and also as a woman hurting over the loss of eight miscarriages. The pain of infertility is well shared in Finding Sarah, Finding Me.Yet while our honesty is brutal at times, it weaves a bright ribbon of hope throughout for those who might be hurting with the issues of infertility and adoption.

SG:How can your book help the various sides in adoption triads?

Christine: Finding Sarah, Finding Me can help:

• Women who are pregnant, unmarried and afraid, if they want to know the emotional truth about making an adoption plan for their baby—that while it hurts immensely, there can be joy. It is my prayer, that this will encourage more women to consider adoption instead of abortion.

• Infertile people will be encouraged to have their voice recognized.

• Adoptive parents will feel affirmed in their mixed emotions regarding the frightening prospect of adoption reunion. This memoir shows various types of reunions—some that went beautifully well and created unique blended families, and others that did not. People are made up of such different emotional stuff. Not all should go down that road.

SG:You're a fiction writer; why write this memoir now?

Christine: My desire to tell my birth-mother story got me started writing in the first place. But the timing wasn’t right after I met Sarah as an adult in 1999. It took seventeen years for the Lord to work on everyone’s heart, to heal old emotional pain, so that the memoir could be published and no one be hurt by it. During those years of healing however, the Lord encourage me to tell my story in Christian fiction, which has won numerous awards.All the spiritual depth of my heartache and depression are in my novels, in the hope of encouraging others. Life is not easy. 

Book info: Sometimes it is only through giving up our hearts that we learn to trust the Lord.Adoption. It’s something that touches one in three people today, a word that will conjure different emotions in those people touched by it. A word that might represent the greatest hope…the greatest question…the greatest sacrifice. But most of all, it’s a word that represents God’s immense love for his people.Join birth mother Christine Lindsay as she shares the heartaches, hopes, and epiphanies of her journey to reunion with the daughter she gave up—and to understanding her true identity in Christ along the way.Through her story and glimpses into the lives of other families in the adoption triad, readers see the beauty of our broken families, broken hearts, and broken dreams when we entrust them to our loving God.Read Chapter One of Finding, Sarah Finding Me: Click HERE

Author info:Christine Lindsay is the author of multi-award-winning Christian fiction with complex emotional and psychological truth. Tales of her Irish ancestors who served in the British Cavalry in Colonial India inspired her multi-award-winning series Twilight of the British Raj, Book 1 Shadowed in Silk, Book 2 Captured by Moonlight, and explosive finale Veiled at Midnight.Christine’s Irish wit and use of setting as a character is evident in her contemporary and historical romances Londonderry Dreaming and Sofi’s Bridge.A writer and speaker, Christine, along her husband, lives on the west coast of Canada, and she has just released her non-fiction book Finding Sarah, Finding Me: A Birthmother’s Story.Drop by Christine’s website www.ChristineLindsay.org or follow her on Amazon on Twitter. Subscribe to her quarterly newsletter, and be her friend on Pinterest , Facebook, and  Goodreads Purchase links:Amazon (Paperback and Kindle)Barnes and Noble

Author Q&A with Elizabeth Oates

Elizabeth Oates served as my intern more than ten years ago. Time flies! Today she's a multi-published author with a new book out. She took some time recently to answer some questions.

SG: Elizabeth, I can’t believe we have known each other for fifteen years now. You came to seminary in 2001, and graduated in ‘05. Tell me what you have been doing since then.

EO: My husband and I moved from Dallas to Waco, where we’ve had three biological kids, ages 10, 8, and 6. We also have a sweet foster daughter who is 16 months old, and we are on track to adopt her sometime this spring. In between raising babies and running carpool, I’ve been writing, blogging, and speaking. I wrote my first book, Dealing with Divorce: Finding Direction When Your Parents Split Up, in 2009. And I just released my second book, If You Could See as Jesus Sees: Inspiration For a Life of Hope, Joy, and Purpose.

SG: It sounds like you juggle a lot between your family and your writing, which can intimidate some people. Do you find that others compare themselves to you? If so, how do you deal with that?

EO: Actually, I talk a lot about comparison, and feeling inadequate, incompetent, and discontent in my new book. The irony is that people can look at my life and think I have it all together, yet I look at others' lives and fall into the same trap.When people say to me, “I don’t know who you do it,” I tell them “You only see what I do. You don’t see what I don’t do.” And the list of what I don’t do is long: I don’t sew, I don’t garden, I don’t do oils, I don’t cook anything with more than four ingredients, I don’t do a book club. I have simplified my life to a few things, and I go deep there.If we can focus on the few things God has called us to and do those well instead of comparing ourselves to what others are doing, I think we’ll find God will bless our efforts in whatever capacity we serve. 

SG: What is your hope for this new book?

EO: My audience is women. And my ultimate hope is that women will stop seeing themselves as the world sees them, or even through their own skewed lens, and they will see themselves as Jesus sees them.

You can order If You Could See as Jesus Seesonline. But you also might win it here. Subscribe to this blog, or leave a comment below, and I'll draw the name of a winner on Jan. 29. Guys, maybe your local library would appreciate a copy. Or a special female in your life? 

Suspense Writer Virginia Smith

Today we’re hearing from Virginia Smith, author of Murder by Mushroom. Though this is her second novel, it’s her first mystery and her first romance with Steeple Hill’s Love Inspired Suspense line:

I never aspired to be a romance writer. In fact, I still don’t claim the title of "romance writer," even though this book (and several more coming soon) contains a major romantic component. Maybe that’s because romance novels are not my first choice as a reader. It’s not that I don’t like them; I do! I enjoy novels in a variety of genres. But given the choice between a science fiction novel and a romance novel, I’ll head for outer space every time. (Okay, yeah, I’m a geek.)

So when my agent called and said, “Guess what? Steeple Hill is interested in Murder by Mushroom, but you’ll need to add a romantic element,” my first reaction was, “But I can’t write romance. I don’t know how.” My agent is a wonderfully encouraging person. She said, “You can do it! Your heroine is already working with a young police officer, so just develop a romance between them.”

When I thought about it, I realized it might work. In fact, I hadn’t told anybody, but my quirky heroine, Jackie Hoffner, was already sort of attracted to the guy. I was only a few chapters into the story, but as the plot unfolded I’d been holding her back, telling her, “No, you can’t fall for that guy. He’s a cop and you’re a murder suspect.” (You probably think it’s crazy to have conversations with fictional characters, but that’s only because you haven’t met Jackie yet. She is a very determined young lady.)

I agreed to give it a shot. I returned to my computer, and I turned Jackie loose. Imagine my surprise when she started teaching me how to write romance into my mystery. I discovered that the little sneak had been planning that romantic theme all along, and she had already worked out the details. That poor police officer didn’t stand a chance. At the end of the book, when he… well, you’ll have to read that part for yourself.

Since finishing Murder by Mushroom, I’ve thought about the most memorable books I have enjoyed over the years. A good number of them, though not classified as “romance,” do have a romantic element. I think that’s because love is a basic human need. A person who does not love is a sad and lonely person. And who wants to read books about sad, lonely people?

So I’ve embraced romance in my books. I still don’t call myself a romance writer, but I don’t mind being known as a writer who loves romance. And mushrooms.

If you’d like to win a copy of Murder by Mushroom, leave a comment. We’ll draw a winner on Saturday. To read about Virginia’s other books, and to learn how you can win a 30GB video iPod, visit her website at www.VirginiaSmith.org.

Author Interview: Eric Wilson

Today I'm talking with suspense writer Eric Wilson. Barbara Warren, who has posted more than 200 Amazon reviews, summarizes the plot of his latest: "It was a good night for Johnny Ray Black. Lots of fans, lots of fun, and then someone knocked him in the head, tied him to a statue, and cut the letters AX on his left shoulder. The stunt sent Aramis Black on a crusade to find the creep who did this to his older brother. Then Aramis begins to get strange e-mails quoting scripture and the letters AX begin to show up carved in other places and on other people. Afraid to go to the police, Aramis is soon plunged into a dark spiral of evil. The unknown opponent seems to be taunting him and is always one step ahead."

Eric, tell us about yourself.
I'm a lover of Jesus, lover of family, and lover of books. Some of my childhood was spent overseas, and I learned to love the world and all its colors. I want honesty in my walk with God. I try to show this in my novels, portraying characters with genuine struggles and genuine desire to find the Answer: Jesus. To date, I've written five novels: Dark to Mortal Eyes ('04), Expiration Date ('05), The Best of Evil ('06), A Shred of Truth (just released), and the novelization of Facing the Giants (in stores Sept 4).

And your latest project?
The Jerusalem's Undead Trilogy. The first book will be out in the fall of '08, published by Thomas Nelson. I can't wait!

What’s it about?
A classic battle of good and evil told in a modern context but with biblical history and Judaic tradition at its core. Humans are caught in a spiritual struggle, very symbolic, yet very visceral and bordering on the genre of horror. The underlying theme is Jesus' call for us to "die to ourselves daily." It's an un-American idea. We live for ourselves. Through a heart-pounding novel, I hope to communicate ideas that will stick in readers' minds.

I read somewhere that you're not crazy about what's generally available on the Christian market. Is that true and if so, why?
Actually, I think there are some amazing writers and books in the Christian market. More and more, authors are exploring life and faith through eyes of honesty and integrity.

My frustration is that much of the Christian market has become myopic, focused on providing "comfort food" and "safe alternatives" while watching the bottom line economically.

I would love to see the rich world of fiction reaching outside the religious box. Of course I want to make a living as a writer. All of us, as Christians, should be allowing the Lord to move through us in our vocations--whether architects, novelists, singers, or janitors. That's not an issue to me. But I would rather work another job if that's what it takes to write books that will touch the lives of those outside the church with stories of God's truth, than make a lot of cash while only tickling believers' ears. That's just my own calling from the Lord. I can't speak for other writers and the tasks they've been given.

What suggestions do you have for writers who don't want to make spiritual truth sound preachy or trite?
Imagine your own non-believing friends and relatives reading your words. Be real in your own relationship with God. Don't hide from your frustrations, but take them to the Lord in honesty and come through the fire refined. It's a daily process. I think that process is reflected when you write of characters with similar struggles. Life is often messy. If we try to wrap it up in nice little bows, our stories sound trite and somewhat naive. I believe Jesus is big enough to handle all of our questions. He is the Answer, after all.

What is the hardest part of writing for you?
Planting my butt in the chair. It's easier to watch TV, write emails, make phone calls, vacuum--anything that takes the place of the creative process. I can't wait till I'm in the mood. I write, and then the mood comes. That's how it works for me. As a husband and father, working another part-time job, I can always find distractions. In the end, I have to sit and write. No excuses.

Anything else on your mind?
I want readers to know that God has a specific call on their lives. Whether it's writing, singing, cleaning toilets, whatever--you can be a blessing to those around you. Be faithful in the little things, keep starving your sin nature and feeding your spiritual nature, and allow Jesus to lead you places you never expected. This next generation is poised to make waves in God's kingdom, but it will only happen if you shake off the dust of the past, the doubts, and plunge forward with diligence. I'm still learning this as a forty-year-old. Hopefully, others will learn from my hard-headed mistakes.

Interview with Tom Neven: On the Frontline

One of my journalism students, a retired military officer, wrote a glowing review of the book, On the Frontline by Tom Neven. A month later at a luncheon in Colorado Springs, I ended up sitting next to the author. So I asked if I could interview him about his work, which is, as its subtitle says, “a guidebook for the physical, emotional and spiritual challenges of military life.”

What drove you to write On the Frontline?

I served seven years in the Marine Corps at the end of the Vietnam era, and I’ve had a special place in my heart for the military ever since. I understand the pressures our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines and Coast Guardsmen face. I wanted to be able to give a bit of perspective to people immersed in this culture from someone who was once there, too.

What is your main message?

If only one message emerges from this book, I want it to be Semper Fidelis. Yes, this is the Marine Corps’ motto, but its meaning—Always Faithful—describes God perfectly. He is true to His word and his promises as found in Scripture. Lean on this aspect of God; it helps a lot when the pressure’s on.

What are some of the problems those returning from war face? Why?

The great hidden problem, the one many don’t want to admit or talk about, is depression. I’m not talking about PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), which is a big problem in itself. I’m talking about the day-in, day-out, low-grade depression that feels like a bag of wet cement weighing down your very being. Its causes are many: stress, long hours, anger, grief and fear. Did I mention stress? The problem is compounded by a military culture in which some are not willing to admit to hurting from something that can’t be “seen” or “touched.” There’s no shame in admitting to suffering depression and seeking help from a chaplain or medical officer.

Second is the strain on marriages. The divorce rate has skyrocketed among the military, this from an already high rate before Iraq and Afghanistan. Long deployments are tough on marriages, and the strains of combat, fatigue, and depression add to the stress.

How can the average person help?

First and foremost, pray. Even if you don’t personally know someone serving in uniform, pray. Soldiers and Marines have told me they take great comfort from knowing that people they might never know or meet are still interceding for them.

Next: send care packages! Hard candy, toothpaste, reading material, Bibles, music CDs, DVDs, shaving cream, baby wipes (it’s sometimes a long time between showers!), razors—all these are greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Tom.

For info on care packages, click here. And consider including a copy of Tom's book.

A Valley of Betrayal

I’m up to my forehead in book edits on Informed Consent right now, so rather than write a rant on the current stem-cell-research bill, I'm going to introduce you to Montana author Tricia Goyer, and let her do the talking.

Four years ago, Tricia was named writer of the year at the Mt. Hermon Christian Writer’s Conference. Two years ago, her book, Life Interrupted, was named a finalist for the ECPA Gold Medallion Award, and her novel Dawn of a Thousand Nights won the American Christian Fiction Writers’ (ACFW) Book of the Year in the long historical romance category. Today I want her to tell you about her latest novel, A Valley of Betrayal.

San: Tell us a little more about yourself.

Tricia: I write parenting books. I write children’s books. I am a novelist. I am a journalist. I am a mentor. I am a wife. I am a mom. I am a home-schooling mom. I am scattered and confused. Okay, I’m not confused, but others are when they try to put me in a box. But I am scattered. Mostly I mentor teenage moms and I home-school my kids. Oh, yeah. I write lots of books, too.

San: Tell me a little about A Valley of Betrayal. You set it in the time of the Spanish Civil War. Isn’t that an unusual setting for a Gen Xer?

Tricia: When I was researching another novel, Arms of Deliverance, I read an autobiography from a man who was a B-17 bomber pilot over Europe. But before that he was an American volunteer for The Spanish Civil War. I had never heard of this war, which happened right before WWII in Spain. I started researching, and I was soon fascinated. Some people call it “the first battle of WWII” because it’s where the Nazis first tried their hand at modern warfare.

I started by researching this time in history, briefly, then I started thinking of unique characters who had an impact during that time. Characters from my other novels have been medics, war correspondents, artists, prisoners. To me it's the people that make the story (and history) come alive. So for this series I dove into the lives of an American artist, a few international volunteers, a Basque priest, and a German pilot. I research the real people first, and then the plot for my novel builds. Soon, I have to make myself stop researching to start writing. Research can be addictive!

San: How did you end up writing historical fiction?

Tricia: I never planned to write historical fiction. I wanted to write contemporary romances. Then in 2000, I was with two writers in Austria who were researching books, and I was along for the ride. But I was the one who got a novel idea—after talking to an Austrian historian. The historian’s true stories about the liberation of Gusen and Mauthausen concentration camps sparked my novel idea. The idea led to attending two WWII reunions and interviewing veterans. The veterans’ stories led to more novels. The rest, as they say, is history!

You can learn more about Tricia here:
http://triciagoyer.blogspot.com
http://genxparents.blogspot.com
http://www.shoutlife.com/triciagoyer
www.triciagoyer.com

You can buy A Valley of Betrayal here.

Extended Interview with Eugene Peterson

Several months ago I ran a series of articles based on an interview with one of my favorite authors, Eugene Peterson. Most know him by his work on The Message, but my favorite of Peterson’s works is Under the Unpredictable Plant. Now he has a new one out, Christ Plays in Ten Thousand Places.

The title is borrowed from words by Gerard Manley Hopkins:

As Kingfishers Catch Fire
As kingfishers catch fire, dragonflies draw flame;
As tumbled over rim in roundy wells
Stones ring; like each tucked string tells, each hung bell's
Bow swung finds tongue to fling out broad its name;
Each mortal thing does one thing and the same:
Deals out that being indoors each one dwells;
Selves — goes itself; myself it speaks and spells,
Crying, What I do is me: for that I came.

I say more: the just man justices;
Keeps grace: that keeps all his goings graces;
Acts in God's eye what in God's eye he is — Christ.
For Christ plays in ten thousand places,
Lovely in limbs, and lovely in eyes not his
To the Father through the features of men's faces.

Recently I received a message from Dr. Reg Grant, my friend and mentor at Dallas Theological Seminary who’s on sabbatical over in Asia. Reg forwarded a link to a rich, more-than-an-hour-long Mars Hill interview with Eugene Peterson in which Dr. Peterson discusses some of the topics addressed in this new release.

In his interview with Ken Myers, Dr. Peterson discusses fiction, community, history, narrative, the way we view people, the dance of the Trinity, poetry—all sorts of fabulous stuff.

Mars Hill had the good sense to run it online, so you can listen to it, too, for free. Enjoy!

http://www.marshillaudio.org/resources/mp3/PetersonUncut.mp3

Links to my Peterson series, in case you missed it:

Eugene Peterson: On Men and Women
Eugene Peterson: On Story
Eugene Peterson: That "Good-for-Nothing" Sabbath

Mary DeMuth II: On Writing

This is the second installment in a two-part interview with Mary DeMuth, author of Ordinary Mom, Extraordinary God. Name some writers who have influenced you and how.C. S. Lewis—I love that he wrote both nonfiction and fiction and did it well. I’m writing both, so he inspires me.Randy Alcorn—he does the same thing! And his words about having an eternal perspective have changed my life.Leif Enger—he wrote Peace Like a River, my new favorite novel. I want to write fiction like that: innovative use of language, strong story, suspense, with a literary element.What are you reading at the moment?Loving Søren by Caroline O’Neill. She’s a friend who lives in New York. She fictionalized Søren Kirkegaard’s relationship with Regine.Searching for God Knows What by Donald Miller. What a terrific voice Donald Miller has. The only other time I have laughed out loud like this is when I’ve read Anne Lamott. And his points about raw spirituality are well-stated and compelling.Postmodern Children’s Ministry by Ivy Beckwith. I’m writing a book about postmodernity and parenting, so this book is part of my research.Describe a typical day for you as a full-time writer.I wake up early (ha!) and take a run. Then I connect with Jesus outside on the patio and eat breakfast. I shower, get fully ready, and then I commute up thirty-two steps to my bedroom/office. I write for 3—6 hours depending on the day. Last month I had a 10,000-word-a-week goal, but in the summer when my kids are home, I reduce it to 5,000. Once the word count is done, I stop. The rest of the day is for errands (they take a lot of time in France), bills, cooking, cleaning, all that non-romantic mom stuff.Describe the process of writing for you. Do you plot it all out in advance or just start writing?I get it down. I hate outlining. Right now I’m in the middle of a non-plotted-out novel and I’m having the time of my life. Every day I get to discover what will happen in the plot. It’s such a thrill! When I write non-fiction, I do outline, though. I believe I am a better writer when I am actually writing. The more the better. My words come faster; my mind thinks quicker. After I write, I send the text to my critique group “Life Sentence.” We meet via phone every Wednesday to critique each other’s work and pray and cry and catch up on life.What are some spiritual pitfalls writers face?Pride. We can begin to feel like we are God’s gift to the writerly world. To overcome, just read Steinbeck. Or Faulkner. Or Sue Monk Kidd. Or any other amazing genius.Isolation. I’m stuck in my “writing turret” all day, and sometimes that prevents me from interacting with real live humans. There must be a balance. I find when I divide my time better between humans and writing about humans, my characters come more alive. And I’m happier when I’m in community.Marketing frenzy over a belief in sovereignty. While I will do what I can to market my books (and I am at a bit of a disadvantage living in France, so I have to work even harder to convince publishers I’m sellable), I do not want to run the marketing treadmill where all I’m doing is obsessing about sales. God is in control. He is sovereign. Ultimately, if a book is to take off or die, it’s in His hands.Talk about the spiritual life of the writer...what should every Christian writer know/do?Praise God no matter where your career is.Be willing to write in obscurity and be willing to take the lowest seat.Lay down writing for a time if it becomes an idol.Welcome criticism even if it’s unwarranted. Learn to say, “Thank you” first and then lick your wounds later.Develop a prayer team for your writing ministry. This has been such a blessing to me. I really believe God is using the books I write because of the prayers of these dear people.If fame comes, use it as an opportunity to serve others, not to boast or lord it over other “lesser” writers.Give back to the writing community that first nourished you.What is in your heart spills out onto the page. Best to keep your heart tender before Jesus before you endeavor to move others with your words.Maintain an eternal perspective. Realize that some of our unpublished words will be used in surprising ways.Write for the Audience of One.Tell the truth: “The secret of good writing,” writes Gordon Lish, “is telling the truth.” Anne Lamott adds, “Risk being unliked. Tell the truth as you understand it. If you’re a writer, you have a moral obligation to do this. And it is a very revolutionary act—truth is always subversive.” Many of us gloss over truth, but the best writing I’ve read (Donald Miller, Anne Lamott, Lauren Winner) bleeds reality and authenticity.When making an illustration, highlight other people’s victories and tell your foibles. It keeps you humble.Excerpt from Ordinary Mom, Extraordinary God: Ordinary Mom/ksFor more about the book: Ordinary Mom, Extraordinary GodMary DeMuth's web site: http://www.relevantprose.com/Mary DeMuth's blog: http://www.relevantblog.blogspot.com/

An Invitation to Solitude and Silence

My favorite picture of Ruth Haley Barton is of her on her knees in the ladies' room. It's my wedding day and she's painting my toenails. Twenty-six years after Ruth was my bridesmaid, she is the winner of the 2005 Christianity Today book of the year award in the Spirituality category for her book, Invitation to Solitude and Silence. If you don't know her already, I'd like to introduce you to my beloved friend through an interview done by her publisher, IVP:IVP: Why do you think words like solitude and silence are so difficult to grasp and implement into our lives?Ruth Haley Barton: Solitude and silence challenge us on every level of our being. They challenge us culturally because nothing in our culture supports quietness and non-activity. Technology now intrudes on every aspect of our lives, and the idea of not being continually available by cell phone, beeper, and palm pilot is now almost unheard of. Solitude and silence challenge us on the level of our relationships because it means that for this period of time we are not available to the people in our lives, and those we care about may resist our lack of availability. Solitude and silence challenge us psychologically because the psyche knows that if we become quiet, we will have to face those inner realities and emotions that we would prefer to avoid by distracting ourselves with noise an d activity. Solitude and silence challenge us spiritually because all the forces of evil seek to prevent us from entering in because when we become truly still we experience and know God in ways that will unseat Satan's power and dominion in our lives. "Be still and know . . ."IVP: What inspired you to write Invitation to Solitude and Silence?Barton: I was inspired to write Invitation to Solitude and Silence out of my own journey into solitude and silence that began when I came to the end of what the traditional "quiet time" had to offer. Silence and solitude have yielded powerful results--connection with God and authentic spiritual transformation--in my own spiritual life that have not come in any other way.IVP: Briefly describe the journey into the disciplines of solitude and silence.Barton: The chapter titles--"Entering in," "Resistance," "Dangerously Tired"--really capture the journey into solitude and silence. There is the initial sense of being invited to enter in--often due to desire and longing for more of God or desperation about what is unfixed in our lives. There is our initial resistance that we must often push through because we are afraid or don't know what to do. We might also experience our distractibility and chaotic inner world, and we will need to allow this to settle as we learn how to rest ourselves in God. There is also the experience of emptiness and self-knowledge that can be very disconcerting; but if we wait in the empty place, God eventually gives us a greater sense of his presence and wisdom for moving forward with our lives in ways that are good for ourselves and for others.IVP: Why are solitude and silence such essential disciplines?Barton: Solitude and silence are the core disciplines of the spiritual life because they are "container" disciplines that create the time and space for other private disciplines. These disciplines are also powerfully concrete ways of giving up control and allowing God to take the initiative in our lives. We move beyond our addiction to words, noise and activity to shore up our identity and allow God to reveal a more authentic self.IVP: What is your hope for Invitation to Solitude and Silence?Barton: My hope for Invitation to Solitude and Silence is that people will not merely read about these disciplines but that they will enter into the disciplines using the practices that are provided. My prayer is that they will feel that they have a companion or a spiritual director and consequently, they will feel safe and guided and reassured throughout their experiences. I pray that they will encounter God in ways that are satisfying and life-changing. For more on Ruth (left): www.thetransformingcenter.org/

Eugene Peterson: On Men and Women

Eugene Peterson was a pastor for thirty years before becoming professor of spiritual theology at Regent in Vancouver, B.C. , a position from which he has since retired. He is probably best known for The Message, a current-language rendering of the Bible. This interview is the third installment in a three-part series.

San: Many are still formulating their views about where women fit into the theological world. Would you care to comment?

EP: Yes, in fact I would like to comment on that. It comes out of my history, too. I grew up in the Pentecostal church where [women preaching] was not unusual. It was pretty common. But my mother struggled with it from time to time because sometimes somebody would come through and read her the verses from Corinthians or Timothy. At one point she quit preaching and teaching because somebody had done this to her. But then she just couldn’t quit. And she told me once, “I don’t feel disobedient when I’m doing this. I don’t feel like I’m grieving the Spirit. It’s when I’m quiet and silent and shut up that I feel like that.” So I don’t know.

I have colleagues who are world-class exegetes. Some affirm equality of women in ministry and others don’t. They’re all master exegetes; they’re all working with the same text. So I have a lot of respect for these people in their attempt, their determination, to honor the Word. I can certainly respect them. For some, at least the ones I know, it comes out of no sense of male chauvinism or superiority or ego, but an honest attempt to honor the Word of God. I know not everybody comes out of this, but some do and I honor that. Yet my personal experience is so different, and the shaping of my life has been so different. I could read these verses I think just as accurately exegetically. So I guess it’s one of the things we’re involved with in [this] century that’s different.

San: What about marriage? I spoke with a woman whose husband is a righteous man, but he is uncomfortable leading a formal devotional time with her. She wanted to know what a couple’s spiritual life should look like. What would you tell her?

EP: I don’t think there’s any picture. At a pastor’s conference I told those in attendance that at noon on Mondays (our Sabbath/hiking day) Jan prayed for lunch. In fact I think I said, “I pray all day Sunday. I’m tired of it. She can do it on Monday.” There was one woman there who was really irate. She said I should be praying and Jan should not be praying because I’m the priest in the family and she’s not the priest. That’s silliness. You are brother, sister, man, wife, friends in Christ. You work out the kind of relationship before the Lord that is intimate. And no, I don’t think there’s any kind of picture you have to fit into, that you have to produce. That’s oppressive isn’t it? After all, this is freedom in the Lord.

San: As a Christian leader, how do you handle friendships with women?

EP: I’ve not lived cautiously. I have friendships with women. I touch them. I’ve been more careful in school than I was in the parish, where everyone knows me. It’s different now because someone can come to my office and we can have a deep talk and the next day I won’t know his or her name. That didn’t happen in a church setting. So I’m more careful now. But I’m not obsessive. These are my friends. Touch is a human thing, not just a sexual thing. It is dehumanizing to deny touch. Is sex a contagious disease? Sex is a danger, but money is a danger, too. Do you refuse to take a salary because money is a danger?

I am convinced that the so‑called failures in ministry are not motivated sexually. For both men and women, they’re motivated by arrogance, pride, power and a hunger for intimacy. It doesn’t happen overnight. They have long histories before them. The failures don’t happen because you touch somebody. They have to do with character development—part of learning to be a man and learning to be a woman. It’s part of spiritual maturity and spiritual formation.

If you pour all your energies into trying to avoid sexual sin, you will fail in another area. There are other failures which are terrible, too. Life is messy. One of the things that usually happens to people in leadership is that we get lots of affirmation from people we don’t know. When I go speak somewhere (I usually don’t do conferences any more) I get lots of affirmation. For three days you’re immersed in a de‑personalizing world. That will take away from you. You don’t know anyone. So you habitually do things that are less characteristic of yourself. It’s easier to lose your identity. When I leave, I feel less myself. Suddenly a woman tells you who you are and you believe her. You accept a role and live it—both men and women do this. It’s easier to live that way. When I do conferences, I don’t have to be nice to anybody. There’s no context. I always sound better than I am.

Eugene Peterson: On Story

After pastoring for thirty years, Eugene Peterson became professor of spiritual theology at Regent in Vancouver, B.C., a position from which he has since retired. This is part two in a three-part interview with him:

San: In the academic environment it’s easy to intellectualize everything. How can we keep from developing the kind of mentality that would view the Trinity as “a great three-point sermon outline”?

EP: I have never had the luxury of just reading the Bible in isolation. It’s not a luxury really. It’s a curse. So I’ve always had to think about, pray about, talk about the doctrine of the Trinity or whatever in terms of the people I’m with. I don’t think I’ve ever used the word Trinity, in fact. I’d rather show it in action than use it in words. Of course, that is what spiritual theology is—theology in its working clothes. As a pastor I was lucky. I had a congregation of new Christians or non-Christians. They didn’t know anything, so I couldn’t assume they knew anything. We had drug addicts. Pagans. So I could never get away with using Christian talk. I always had to re‑think it, re‑formulize it. The biggest influence on The Message was my parish.

San: But how can we interact with truth for ourselves without focusing on how we can “use” material in our ministries? Is that possible?

EP: Yes, I think so. I was speaking at a pastor’s conference. I thought it was supposed to be a renewal weekend, but then I realized, Hey, they’re all writing this down. Everything I say they’re writing down. And I said, “Stop it. Put down your pencils. Put down your notebooks. I’m talking to you and not to your congregations.” They were all preparing next weeks’ sermons.

When [a mutual friend] was talking about how she’s read my books and how they’ve changed her, it occurred to me that I’ve never written for anybody. I don’t think I’ve ever thought, “I need to write this for people.” I think almost all of my writing has been self‑education—trying to figure it out, trying to guess what I was thinking, make it articulate for myself. So it always surprises me when people say, “This has meant so much to me. I think, “But I wasn’t writing it for you! How did you get in on it?”

San: I’ve heard you say that reading novels has helped you in your ministry. How so?

EP: At some point, I think it was in college, I realized that novels were important to me in what I guess you would call a spiritual sense. They shaped my imagination in a story form so that I wasn’t being flattened into statistical things, reductionist. For example, you know one of the things I really detest? I hesitate to even say this because sometimes people become furious with me when they hear me say it, but I detest this Myers‑Briggs thing. In a minute everybody has you “figured out.” I think there’s mystery to us. You never get the uniqueness of who you are. People get so upset when I say that because they tell me, “Myers‑Briggs changed my life. Now I can live without all this conflict and misunderstanding.” Sounds pretty dull to me.

Anyway, I realized at a point quite early that novelists and poets were important to me for spiritual reasons. That is, they kept the story alive and kept my attention to words alive—the poets in the use of words, primarily how words work; the novelist in terms of developing a narrative sense.

It’s something you learn and relearn. In my early days as a pastor, I didn’t tell stories. I had sermons that were packed with information like German sausages. And then I realized, “These people I’m preaching to—they’re not just empty barrels of ignorance that I have to fill up with facts. They are people. They are stories. I’ve got to learn to know them. This is the way the gospel comes. It comes in stories. It’s not alien in their lives. It’s in the very form in which they live their lives. I talk about story a lot, but I don’t really mean telling stories. I mean inhabiting stories.

I find I don’t tell stories so much as I get stories told. I get interested in you and I don’t even know you have a story, but by asking questions or filling in blanks I can show the story nature of your life. Then you suddenly realize, “I’m not just a list of things to do. I’m not just my aptitude test and my I.Q. test scores. I’m living in a plot with characters, and all the stuff connects in some way or another.” What happens today, even though I don’t understand it and it doesn’t make any sense, thirty chapters down the road it’s going to. So it’s important to develop this narrative sense of life, which is the way the Bible is given to us. I need help to feed that because we don’t live in a storytelling world. We live in a list‑making world. Take Bosnia and Croatia. Who knows about them? A couple of years ago, I went to the library and found out what’s been going on there for five hundred to seven hundred years. It’s a story. The newspaper makes no sense without knowing the story. It’s a wonderful story. It’s a terrible story. But it’s a story, not just body counts.

So I, at least, need nurturing in that. And a novelist does that for me. I read novels as a defense against a plotless, characterless world in which I live.

People have said to me that The Message read like a novel. I was not deliberate. I wasn’t conscious of doing that, of storying it.

San: You just wanted to write in Koine English?

EP: Yes. And by that time it was just a part of me.

San: What do you read now? What do you recommend?

EP: I don’t read the newspaper. I listen to the CBC [news] broadcast twice a day for five minutes in the morning and evening. That keeps me informed about the important stuff. I don’t have a TV. Wendell Berry says to put a TV in the middle of the floor and carefully take it apart with a crowbar.

I read the Atlantic Monthly and two periodicals, Interpretation and Theology Today. I go to the library once a month and read the more scholarly journals for the things I need to keep current on. But beyond that, I read novels. I read Walter Wangerin. I loved George Eliot’s Middlemarch. I like Ivan Doig, Wendell Berry, Barbara Kingsolver, Frederick Buechner, Dickens, Dostoevsky, Faulkner. Find what nourishes you and then read and re‑read it.

San: And you write out of your experience . . .

EP: Yes. I always knew writing was part of my life. People ask me “How do writers find time to write?” I answer, “How does an alcoholic find time to drink? You just do it.” Fortunately, I am the type of person who can write in small segments of time. But I never feel like I’m just writing something to write. I’m writing out of my living. It was easier to do this when I was a pastor because the classroom is not as natural a place to pastor. Students are different from parishioners because you’re not integrated into their lives. In the pastorate, I never attended committee meetings. I let the elders and deacons do it. But now I go to committee meetings. You should see twenty professors in a committee meeting!

I don’t know students as well as I knew my congregation. I haven’t been to their homes; I don’t know their parents. There’s not the same sense of intimacy as in a church. It doesn’t feel nearly as rhythmic. There was a rhythm to being a pastor. So it’s different writing out of my experience now. And it’s a slow process.

Eugene Peterson: That "Good-for-Nothing" Sabbath

Today I'm pleased to feature an interview with Eugene Peterson, who was a pastor for thirty years before becoming professor of spiritual theology at Regent in Vancouver, B.C. He has written many books such as the translation of the Bible, The Message; Under the Unpredictable Plant; Working the Angles; Five Smooth Stones for Pastoral Work; and Subversive Spirituality.

San: We live in such a busy world. How do we slow down?

EP: The first thing is that you have to be convinced it’s important. Unless you’re convinced, it’s hard to do. The world is conspiring against you. And your pastor most of all. So first I think you have to be convinced it’s true.

There’s one book which I think is indispensable for convincing you it’s true—Abraham Heschel’s book, The Sabbath. If you read that book three times, you will think, “There is no way I cannot keep the Sabbath. If I’m going to honor God, I’ve got to keep a Sabbath.” It’s a paperback, inexpensive. If the commandments don’t convince you, which they should, Heshel should do it.

Second, I think you can’t do it by yourself. It’s you against the world. You need help from your family, a friend. You have to add a sense of adaptation to your circumstances. So you’ve got to avoid this all-or-nothing thing. Some people have work that prevents them from doing it. [My wife and I] didn’t start doing this until our children were in school. It took that long for us to “get it.” So I never dealt with the small children thing. But spouses can do this for each other. The Sabbath is a gift. You give each other Sabbaths.

San: How do you spend your Sabbath time?

EP: When I was a pastor, on Monday morning we would hike in the woods. We defined our Sabbath this way: we could do anything, but nothing that was necessary. We would play and we would pray. Anything under the category of play was legitimate; anything in the category of pray was legitimate. When we lived in Maryland, we’d pack a lunch, go to a trailhead, and spend the morning in silence. We took binoculars. At lunchtime we would find a place to eat and Jan would pray. At the trailhead Jan would read a Psalm. We’d start with a Psalm and then be silent until lunch. Then we’d talk about the birds we’d seen. We didn’t have structure. In the late afternoon, we’d get home and our kids would start to arrive. We’d putter. Jan would fix supper or I’d fix supper. I’d fix doorknobs. I like to putter. That’s the way it looked for us.
Now it’s different. Now we worship with a congregation on Sunday, and we pack a lunch. We’re only twenty minutes from the beach, so we walk to the beach and have lunch there. Sometimes we’ll be a little more aggressive. We go to the mountains—they’re only a half hour away. It’s essentially a day when you don’t do anything.

San: Was the silence by design or did it just work out that way?

EP: It was an agreed silence. That was harder for Jan than for me. There are different kinds of silences. There’s silence when there’s just nothing happening. But an intentional silence with someone else is qualitatively different than just not talking. It’s amazing what a difference. You have intimacy where a relationship develops. It’s not like nothing is happening. This is a praying intentional silence, when each of you has silence for three to four hours. I can’t say I am praying consciously, except occasionally, but it was a willingness to just sink into that “beingness” of where you were.

There’s another thing I need to say about the Sabbath: It never gets any easier. I wake up Sunday morning or Monday morning—I’ve been doing this for twenty-five to thirty years now—and I can think of something I want to write. I never write on the Sabbath. That’s hard work to me. I don’t even write notes. I say, “Lord, if you want me to remember that on Tuesday, okay!” But that’s it. It still doesn’t get any easier. I would have thought that the weekly habit of Sabbath would by this time just be a habit, but it’s not. I want to do things. I want to call people. It takes me two or three hours before I say, “Okay, Lord, I quit. It’s your day.” There’s so much I could do.

This is where the whole world conspires against you. But the commandment is pretty clear. He said it twice, but He gave a different reason each time. In Genesis, you do it because God did it, which ought to be a good enough reason. The second reason, in Deuteronomy, is because nobody gave you a day off for four hundred years. If you work on the Sabbath, you make other people work—your spouse, your kids, your associates, your congregation. So it’s social justice.

Back when I was a pastor, I told my church, “I will give you a Sabbath, and in turn, I need your help. I will give you Sunday with no meetings, no committees meeting. On Monday I will take a Sabbath. I want you to feel free to call me any time day or night if you need to. But if something can wait until Tuesday, please wait until then.” In thirty years, I think I had three phone calls on a Monday.

San: Is it possible to integrate this into the institutional part of seminary life?

EP: Once a year our faculty takes a silent retreat for three days. We gather three times a day and sometimes read aloud to each other. We also have a week at mid‑semester called a reading week. We don’t hold classes, the faculty takes a retreat, and the students get caught up.

To be continued…